1) littleninja2356
UK
Mensch an ex. Tory MP, now residing in NYC has her own agenda which matches the xenophobic Tory Party, the right wing media and the ignorant and uneducated.
While the EU is not perfect, the U.K. would be insane to remove itself from a pan European trading agreement which has benefited this country.
To return to an island nation of isolationist shop keepers would harm Britain's economy with many companies relocating to France and Germany with the loss of thousands of jobs.
For decades the Tory Eurosceptics have determined party policy to the detriment of the Party and the country. This country is reliant on the financial services sector which would be lost while we no longer have a manufacturing industry.
Much is being made of the benefits system but the truth is different from what the media is representing. If we leave the UK then ex. pats working in Europe will have to return and face the prospect of no jobs and unaffordable housing. The U.K. needs Europe economically and whilst interference from Brussels is a nightmare, we can't afford to go it alone.
__________
2) John
is a trusted commenter Hartford
Mensch is a long time conservative Euro sceptic so her pronouncements on this topic are about as reliable as those of Fox News one Hillary Clinton. She's now a columnist of the Murdoch owned Sun that has long been trying to promote Brexit. Most of the British public realize Cameron's re-negotiation is largely Kabuki theater to deal with the fact that about half his MP's and much his party want to quit the EU ignoring the fact that entry and almost all the major enabling treaties were signed by conservative prime ministers Heath, Thatcher and Major. Leaving the EU would be diplomatic and economic suicide for the UK and once the referendum takes place the odds are there will be a vote to stay in.
____________________
3) Mark, UK
London, UK
I thought we'd had 'brexit' from the woeful Louise Mensch as she now lives in New York. This is just a propaganda piece from Rupert Murdoch. But bad luck New York - you've got her now.
_________________
4) Mark Thomason
is a trusted commenter Clawson,
As a former Conservative MP, the author knows perfectly well that the money saved from the EU dues will not be used to restore austerity cuts.
It will be used for tax cuts. The money will then go overseas as foreign investment, to avoid taxes at home and seek a higher rate of return.
The wealthy will profit again, and the British economy will shrink a bit for this loss of economic activity.
She assumes that Britain will be granted free trade status without charge. There is no reason to assume that. The EU can get back the money Britain takes out by levying duties on British exports to the EU. A Brexit deserves no less.
She speaks of the "young men of fighting age" from Syria. It is a longstanding suggestion that they ought to stay in Syria and fight the West's proxy war, die for the West's designs on their country. It should be no surprise that many are not so inclined.
She also leaves the suggestion that refugees are largely these young men. Actually, EU figures are that only 22% are those single young men who choose not to fight in a war they see as not their fight.
I fully understand the desire for real sovereignty, and the feeling that the EU is too Continental in its governance structure for the British (or American) concept of real democracy. But even outside the EU, Britain will not be able to trade into it without complying with the EU regulation of trade goods and terms, and it will then have no voice at all in setting those standards.
_______________
5) Holger Grote
Wuerzburg, Germany
Well, I do not care whether Britain is in or out of the European Union. Strictly speaking it has never been "in" the union with all the exceptions that apply to their membership and which annoy continental Europeans. I was 15 years older than the author when Britain joined the EEC an I appreciated it. Since then my attitude has changed: neither Russia nor the UK are European. So I would rather see the UK outside the EU. Will the UK be better off after leaving the EU? Sure, the UK will be free to do what it wants, but they will be in the class of Switzerland and Norway: These countries have to obey EU rules if they want to trade without sitting at the table where the rules are made. It might be good for Europe if the UK leaves: the financial market within the EU can be regulatetd without interference from London and the City. Foreign banks might have second thoughts whether London was the right place and move to Dublin, Paris or Frankfurt instead. For Brits it will become difficult: no free trade, no free travel (visa), no more trips to your summer homes in France ..... What I hope for is a decisive vote for or against the EU. And once Britain is out it will not get in again (for the next 50 years). Why? Britain has more to loose than Europe.
__________________
6) timoty Finland
So Britain would be better-off out of Europe.
Margaret Thatcher’s handbag got quite a lot of money back from Bruxelles, so calculating how much it costs to be a member is not so easy.
But I think the EU would be better-off without Britain. Britain has not gotten over it losing an empire and not getting anything in return. It shows in everything the Brits are doing and saying. The continent has problems enough without having to accommodate whingeing Britain also. If the Brits want to leave, let them leave.
Many people have tried to have a cake and eat it, but it doesn’t work.
_____________
7) CG UK
This is a profoundly naive and one sided telling of this issue. For one, the austerity imposed in Britain is one of choice rather than necessity so pretending that there are some magical sunny uplands available post Brexit is farcical, so too is the idea that this money will not have to be spent in other ways replacing, for example, all of the EU agreements that the UK will not have access to on its own. Given the relatively weaker bargaining position the UK will have, the terms will be inferior to current terms in many cases.
But this isn't the main issue. A real problem is what happens when the UK turns around and seeks to negotiate to retain its preferential access to EU markets? Free trade will be accompanied by conditions as will free movement of the 2 million UK individuals living in the EU. The only way these things happen is a reciprocal set of rights for all EU individuals. Which is what we have now but the UK would have no influence over EU policy in those circumstances.
If those rights are not retained the UK, its manufacturing, services and financial sectors which depend on access will be hammered as will the exorbitant property prices the Conservative right wing are taking for granted. This would be a car crash. I would suggest NY Times readers ignore Ms Menchs partisan and ill informed missive.
_____________
8) j. von hettlingen is a trusted commenter switzerland
Louise Mensch is a columnist for the Sun, Rupert Murdoch's mouthpiece for anti-EU stance. The reactionary media tycoon's best-selling daily, the Sun, is a persistent critic of the European Union and all what it stands for.
The paper published a series of front page attacks in the early 1990s on the then European Commission president, Jacques Delors. In 1992 the Sun called for readers to burn Delors in effigy on Guy Fawkes night bonfires. The paper has campaigned relentlessly against the EU ever since.
I am a EU citizen and I can live with a Union without Britain.
____________
9) Peter Brown UK
Let me give you some food for thought as to why Britain can not only survive but prosper outside of the EU.
Britain is the World's fifth largest economy; we have traditional ties with the English speaking Nations of the World which are in the order of one fifth of the World: Britain, for the past 16 consecutive months has more lucrative trade with the rest of the World than with the Eu but has done this on average annual sales since 2008. Britain once had its own seat at the WTO but now has to rely on a single EU Commissioner to do all the negotiating for 28 EU States, on secession, we would be able to make our own deals on a full time basis. Do not let anyone think that Britain is too small to go it alone when you look at some of the richest Nations on Earth that are also many of the smallest. Iceland with a total population of just 320,000 have negotiated their own trade deal with China whilst even after more than 10 years, the EU has not been able to set up a deal with India. Need I go on?
_________________
10) Bart Amsterdam, The Netherlands
I just hope that the countries on the continent can have a vote as well, because, frankly, Brexit seems a good idea to me too. As a Dutchman I feel a lot of kinship with the British. We are favoring free trade and entrepeurship and have a strong sense of freedom. So my dissapointment with GB is profound. From the beginning of their membership of the Union in 1973 they choose the sideline and never took a leading role. Always complaining about Europe, never happy with the benefits, leaving us with the refugee mess and - above all - leaving us to the French and Germans. So I agree with a Brexit. Go. We will move Europe's financial capital to Frankfurt and will welcome Scotland and it's oil to the Union. Goodbye, It could have been good together, but the love came from one side only. It's a shame.
___________
11) Rob Crawford Talloires, France
Cameron is a clueless twit searching for issues to cover up the fact that he has no ideas. The Brexit referendum will be his legacy - even if it is defeated, it will remain as a bone in Britain's throat, forever framing its relations with the EU.
Mensch's argument that it is about freedom from bureaucracy is laughable. The EU is a confederation, Brussels has very little power to impose anything on its members that they do not agree to in treaties or executive agreements.
Beyond the economic advantages of tariff-free trade and open borders, the EU is a mechanism to encourage European leaders to think in terms of the continent. It is an evolving institution and one of the great political experiments of our time. If it falls apart, the consequences could be catastrophic.
______________
12) george coastline
The dream of Europe died when the capitalists of France Germany and the Netherlands took in the former Soviet satellite states so they could outsource the labor of manufacturing the world's most coveted products and escape the powerful unions which enriched their entire population. Corporate Europe needed their own Mexico and China and now the old Common Market countries reap the consequences. In Paris today you can locate the closest bakery by just looking down the street until you see a colorfully clad Eastern European beggar sitting on the sidewalk. And that's just the tip of the iceberg
________________________
13) Kurt Kraus Springfield
So the EU will take Scotland and Frankfurt will take the European business of the City. The markets, which you Tories believe in, have already spoken. Just look at the pound.
_______________________
14) ware adams chicago
The British should leave the EU.
Britain has a chronic home problem: rich south (London and finance $) vs. impoverished Midland and North (old factories, mills, high unenployment etc.). EU membership merely helps to enrich the money lenders and traders in the South; but does nothing for the mass of English citizens.
What's important is the alternative: joining the English speaking countries, U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Far East. They can buy lots of high quality foods from these countries at bargain prices, and negotiate no genetically modified food.
They can feed themselves cheaper and better out of the EU.
But most of all getting out of the EU would force the English to begin about re-structuring their old and run down manufacturing base, and begin to sell to other English speaking countries as they did in the 19th Century.
Getting out would compel the British to start to rebuild their industrial and manufacturing base and put the people in the North to work.
Those spending the $ to campaign for EU membership are the insulated bankers and money lenders in London, who thrive while the average Britain gets poorer and poorer.
_____________________
15) Paul Easton Brooklyn
A unified Europe looked good to the economists but the people didn't feel that way. Why should they? They speak different languages and have diverse cultures and histories. The economically stronger ones have no sympathy for the weaker ones so the latter (following Britain's lead) had best get out of it. Unity depends on loyalty, which is more than a financial matter.
____________________
16) HotelAnexoRialto Madrid
As a citizen of a country full of independence movements, virtually everything that Ms. Mensch complains about for Brussels and the EU could be cut and pasted into separatists' speeches in Catalonia or the Basque country. All it takes is to substitute "Brussels and the EU" for "Madrid and Spain". The writer wants to "take back" her country. Something that will also resonate with Donald Trump and others. A racist or xenophobic undercurrent also lies beneath all the analytical arguments about freedom and money.
However the main reason I don't buy most the arguments for separatism is because proponents always assume that everything and everyone else will remain passive and pleased after the breakup. Does Ms. Mensch seriously believe that Britain can leave the EU and not lose Scotland? Does she think that tariffs and non-tariff barriers won't increase on British goods and services? Why will foreign companies still want to be based in Britain without free access to European markets? For every action there is a reaction.
UK
Mensch an ex. Tory MP, now residing in NYC has her own agenda which matches the xenophobic Tory Party, the right wing media and the ignorant and uneducated.
While the EU is not perfect, the U.K. would be insane to remove itself from a pan European trading agreement which has benefited this country.
To return to an island nation of isolationist shop keepers would harm Britain's economy with many companies relocating to France and Germany with the loss of thousands of jobs.
For decades the Tory Eurosceptics have determined party policy to the detriment of the Party and the country. This country is reliant on the financial services sector which would be lost while we no longer have a manufacturing industry.
Much is being made of the benefits system but the truth is different from what the media is representing. If we leave the UK then ex. pats working in Europe will have to return and face the prospect of no jobs and unaffordable housing. The U.K. needs Europe economically and whilst interference from Brussels is a nightmare, we can't afford to go it alone.
__________
2) John
is a trusted commenter Hartford
Mensch is a long time conservative Euro sceptic so her pronouncements on this topic are about as reliable as those of Fox News one Hillary Clinton. She's now a columnist of the Murdoch owned Sun that has long been trying to promote Brexit. Most of the British public realize Cameron's re-negotiation is largely Kabuki theater to deal with the fact that about half his MP's and much his party want to quit the EU ignoring the fact that entry and almost all the major enabling treaties were signed by conservative prime ministers Heath, Thatcher and Major. Leaving the EU would be diplomatic and economic suicide for the UK and once the referendum takes place the odds are there will be a vote to stay in.
____________________
3) Mark, UK
London, UK
I thought we'd had 'brexit' from the woeful Louise Mensch as she now lives in New York. This is just a propaganda piece from Rupert Murdoch. But bad luck New York - you've got her now.
_________________
4) Mark Thomason
is a trusted commenter Clawson,
As a former Conservative MP, the author knows perfectly well that the money saved from the EU dues will not be used to restore austerity cuts.
It will be used for tax cuts. The money will then go overseas as foreign investment, to avoid taxes at home and seek a higher rate of return.
The wealthy will profit again, and the British economy will shrink a bit for this loss of economic activity.
She assumes that Britain will be granted free trade status without charge. There is no reason to assume that. The EU can get back the money Britain takes out by levying duties on British exports to the EU. A Brexit deserves no less.
She speaks of the "young men of fighting age" from Syria. It is a longstanding suggestion that they ought to stay in Syria and fight the West's proxy war, die for the West's designs on their country. It should be no surprise that many are not so inclined.
She also leaves the suggestion that refugees are largely these young men. Actually, EU figures are that only 22% are those single young men who choose not to fight in a war they see as not their fight.
I fully understand the desire for real sovereignty, and the feeling that the EU is too Continental in its governance structure for the British (or American) concept of real democracy. But even outside the EU, Britain will not be able to trade into it without complying with the EU regulation of trade goods and terms, and it will then have no voice at all in setting those standards.
_______________
5) Holger Grote
Wuerzburg, Germany
Well, I do not care whether Britain is in or out of the European Union. Strictly speaking it has never been "in" the union with all the exceptions that apply to their membership and which annoy continental Europeans. I was 15 years older than the author when Britain joined the EEC an I appreciated it. Since then my attitude has changed: neither Russia nor the UK are European. So I would rather see the UK outside the EU. Will the UK be better off after leaving the EU? Sure, the UK will be free to do what it wants, but they will be in the class of Switzerland and Norway: These countries have to obey EU rules if they want to trade without sitting at the table where the rules are made. It might be good for Europe if the UK leaves: the financial market within the EU can be regulatetd without interference from London and the City. Foreign banks might have second thoughts whether London was the right place and move to Dublin, Paris or Frankfurt instead. For Brits it will become difficult: no free trade, no free travel (visa), no more trips to your summer homes in France ..... What I hope for is a decisive vote for or against the EU. And once Britain is out it will not get in again (for the next 50 years). Why? Britain has more to loose than Europe.
__________________
6) timoty Finland
So Britain would be better-off out of Europe.
Margaret Thatcher’s handbag got quite a lot of money back from Bruxelles, so calculating how much it costs to be a member is not so easy.
But I think the EU would be better-off without Britain. Britain has not gotten over it losing an empire and not getting anything in return. It shows in everything the Brits are doing and saying. The continent has problems enough without having to accommodate whingeing Britain also. If the Brits want to leave, let them leave.
Many people have tried to have a cake and eat it, but it doesn’t work.
_____________
7) CG UK
This is a profoundly naive and one sided telling of this issue. For one, the austerity imposed in Britain is one of choice rather than necessity so pretending that there are some magical sunny uplands available post Brexit is farcical, so too is the idea that this money will not have to be spent in other ways replacing, for example, all of the EU agreements that the UK will not have access to on its own. Given the relatively weaker bargaining position the UK will have, the terms will be inferior to current terms in many cases.
But this isn't the main issue. A real problem is what happens when the UK turns around and seeks to negotiate to retain its preferential access to EU markets? Free trade will be accompanied by conditions as will free movement of the 2 million UK individuals living in the EU. The only way these things happen is a reciprocal set of rights for all EU individuals. Which is what we have now but the UK would have no influence over EU policy in those circumstances.
If those rights are not retained the UK, its manufacturing, services and financial sectors which depend on access will be hammered as will the exorbitant property prices the Conservative right wing are taking for granted. This would be a car crash. I would suggest NY Times readers ignore Ms Menchs partisan and ill informed missive.
_____________
8) j. von hettlingen is a trusted commenter switzerland
Louise Mensch is a columnist for the Sun, Rupert Murdoch's mouthpiece for anti-EU stance. The reactionary media tycoon's best-selling daily, the Sun, is a persistent critic of the European Union and all what it stands for.
The paper published a series of front page attacks in the early 1990s on the then European Commission president, Jacques Delors. In 1992 the Sun called for readers to burn Delors in effigy on Guy Fawkes night bonfires. The paper has campaigned relentlessly against the EU ever since.
I am a EU citizen and I can live with a Union without Britain.
____________
9) Peter Brown UK
Let me give you some food for thought as to why Britain can not only survive but prosper outside of the EU.
Britain is the World's fifth largest economy; we have traditional ties with the English speaking Nations of the World which are in the order of one fifth of the World: Britain, for the past 16 consecutive months has more lucrative trade with the rest of the World than with the Eu but has done this on average annual sales since 2008. Britain once had its own seat at the WTO but now has to rely on a single EU Commissioner to do all the negotiating for 28 EU States, on secession, we would be able to make our own deals on a full time basis. Do not let anyone think that Britain is too small to go it alone when you look at some of the richest Nations on Earth that are also many of the smallest. Iceland with a total population of just 320,000 have negotiated their own trade deal with China whilst even after more than 10 years, the EU has not been able to set up a deal with India. Need I go on?
_________________
10) Bart Amsterdam, The Netherlands
I just hope that the countries on the continent can have a vote as well, because, frankly, Brexit seems a good idea to me too. As a Dutchman I feel a lot of kinship with the British. We are favoring free trade and entrepeurship and have a strong sense of freedom. So my dissapointment with GB is profound. From the beginning of their membership of the Union in 1973 they choose the sideline and never took a leading role. Always complaining about Europe, never happy with the benefits, leaving us with the refugee mess and - above all - leaving us to the French and Germans. So I agree with a Brexit. Go. We will move Europe's financial capital to Frankfurt and will welcome Scotland and it's oil to the Union. Goodbye, It could have been good together, but the love came from one side only. It's a shame.
___________
11) Rob Crawford Talloires, France
Cameron is a clueless twit searching for issues to cover up the fact that he has no ideas. The Brexit referendum will be his legacy - even if it is defeated, it will remain as a bone in Britain's throat, forever framing its relations with the EU.
Mensch's argument that it is about freedom from bureaucracy is laughable. The EU is a confederation, Brussels has very little power to impose anything on its members that they do not agree to in treaties or executive agreements.
Beyond the economic advantages of tariff-free trade and open borders, the EU is a mechanism to encourage European leaders to think in terms of the continent. It is an evolving institution and one of the great political experiments of our time. If it falls apart, the consequences could be catastrophic.
______________
12) george coastline
The dream of Europe died when the capitalists of France Germany and the Netherlands took in the former Soviet satellite states so they could outsource the labor of manufacturing the world's most coveted products and escape the powerful unions which enriched their entire population. Corporate Europe needed their own Mexico and China and now the old Common Market countries reap the consequences. In Paris today you can locate the closest bakery by just looking down the street until you see a colorfully clad Eastern European beggar sitting on the sidewalk. And that's just the tip of the iceberg
________________________
13) Kurt Kraus Springfield
So the EU will take Scotland and Frankfurt will take the European business of the City. The markets, which you Tories believe in, have already spoken. Just look at the pound.
_______________________
14) ware adams chicago
The British should leave the EU.
Britain has a chronic home problem: rich south (London and finance $) vs. impoverished Midland and North (old factories, mills, high unenployment etc.). EU membership merely helps to enrich the money lenders and traders in the South; but does nothing for the mass of English citizens.
What's important is the alternative: joining the English speaking countries, U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Far East. They can buy lots of high quality foods from these countries at bargain prices, and negotiate no genetically modified food.
They can feed themselves cheaper and better out of the EU.
But most of all getting out of the EU would force the English to begin about re-structuring their old and run down manufacturing base, and begin to sell to other English speaking countries as they did in the 19th Century.
Getting out would compel the British to start to rebuild their industrial and manufacturing base and put the people in the North to work.
Those spending the $ to campaign for EU membership are the insulated bankers and money lenders in London, who thrive while the average Britain gets poorer and poorer.
_____________________
15) Paul Easton Brooklyn
A unified Europe looked good to the economists but the people didn't feel that way. Why should they? They speak different languages and have diverse cultures and histories. The economically stronger ones have no sympathy for the weaker ones so the latter (following Britain's lead) had best get out of it. Unity depends on loyalty, which is more than a financial matter.
____________________
16) HotelAnexoRialto Madrid
As a citizen of a country full of independence movements, virtually everything that Ms. Mensch complains about for Brussels and the EU could be cut and pasted into separatists' speeches in Catalonia or the Basque country. All it takes is to substitute "Brussels and the EU" for "Madrid and Spain". The writer wants to "take back" her country. Something that will also resonate with Donald Trump and others. A racist or xenophobic undercurrent also lies beneath all the analytical arguments about freedom and money.
However the main reason I don't buy most the arguments for separatism is because proponents always assume that everything and everyone else will remain passive and pleased after the breakup. Does Ms. Mensch seriously believe that Britain can leave the EU and not lose Scotland? Does she think that tariffs and non-tariff barriers won't increase on British goods and services? Why will foreign companies still want to be based in Britain without free access to European markets? For every action there is a reaction.
As a referendum on membership looms, support for “Brexit” is growing.
nytimes.com|By Louise Mensch
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