SPIEGEL: Who carries the greater responsibility for the Ukraine conflict?
Gorbachev: Casting blame isn't helpful in this highly dangerous crisis. But I do want to be clear about a few things. In November 1990, at the Conference for Security and Cooperation in Paris, the talk was of a new peaceful world order. George Bush, Sr. and I were especially active in promoting this. But nothing came of it -- a demilitarization of politics didn't happen. Instead, a dangerous winner's mentality became widespread in America. I criticize this attitude every time I visit the United States. I remind people of how John F. Kennedy took a stand against the demonization of people in the Soviet Union and said that a true peace could not be a Pax americana, that peace could not be dictated by America. There is either peace for all or there is no peace.
SPIEGEL: Did America not emerge as the victor of the Cold War?
Gorbachev: Would America have been able to achieve these massive changes without Moscow, without us? No! We showed at the time what is possible if we work together: We solved regional conflicts, we achieved German reunification, the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe, nuclear disarmament. Unfortunately, America then started building a global empire, a mega empire.
SPIEGEL: When did America begin down that path?
Gorbachev: You know yourselves. When the Soviet Union fell, those who didn't wish us well shed crocodile tears as they rubbed their hands together beneath the table. The Americans began by surrounding Russia with so-called rings of defense -- NATO's eastward expansion. NATO intervened militarily in the Yugoslavian civil war without the consent of the United Nations. That was a precedent-setting case. All that triggered a backlash in Russia. No Kremlin leader can ignore something like that.
[...]
SPIEGEL: You met with Angela Merkel in the Chancellery. How did the talk go?
Gorbachev: You know yourselves. When the Soviet Union fell, those who didn't wish us well shed crocodile tears as they rubbed their hands together beneath the table. The Americans began by surrounding Russia with so-called rings of defense -- NATO's eastward expansion. NATO intervened militarily in the Yugoslavian civil war without the consent of the United Nations. That was a precedent-setting case. All that triggered a backlash in Russia. No Kremlin leader can ignore something like that.
[...]
SPIEGEL: You met with Angela Merkel in the Chancellery. How did the talk go?
Gorbachev: Friendly. We spoke with each other for about an hour. But the balance of power was unequal. A female advisor to the chancellor was there, so I had two women against me. I could very clearly sense that the chancellor is under pressure -- both domestically and in terms of foreign policy. I explained to her that people needed to sit down for as long as it takes to find a solution. You won't achieve anything by tripping all over each other with rash statements. Angela Merkel agreed with me, even if she acts differently.
[...]
SPIEGEL: What do you think a solution to the crisis might look like?
Gorbachev: An immediate cease-fire, followed by an international effort to rebuild the destroyed areas. If necessary, we need to invite Otto von Bismarck again. He said that Germany should never wage war with Russia. Germany already tried once during World War II to expand its sphere of influence into the east. What lessons does it still need? It hasn't been forgotten in my country: the massive destruction, the women who waited for husbands who never returned home. It is good that our people have reconciled with each other.
SPIEGEL: And Merkel nevertheless says today that Putin lives in another world. Do you understand where she is coming from?
Gorbachev: No, not entirely. And I'm not the only one who doesn't understand. Please recall President Putin's speech at the Munich Security Conference in 2007. Putin clearly stated at the time where Russia's red lines are and that Russia does not agree to NATO's advance on its borders. For us Russians, by the way, Putin wasn't saying anything new. So why was it that our partners were so astounded? I get the impression that the German people understood Putin very well at the time -- in any case better than the political elite in Germany. It is a mistake to try to get rid of Putin.
SPIEGEL: Why would it be a mistake?
Gorbachev: It's hopelessly stupid and highly dangerous. Putin should leave office at the end of his term. Unfortunately, the German idea is very different. It envisions the further tightening of sanctions until the Russians take to the streets and topple Putin.
1) Rusii au memorie.
2) Merkel este trasa in toate directiile, poate adesea chiar impotriva intereselor...
3) De Germania pare a depinde pacea/razboiul la scara mai mare.
2) Merkel este trasa in toate directiile, poate adesea chiar impotriva intereselor...
3) De Germania pare a depinde pacea/razboiul la scara mai mare.
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